Tony Goodall Fans’ Conference

Saturday 13th December – 11am

Attended:

 

Andrew Cullen, Rich Hughes, Mark Judges & Johnny Moore (PFC)

Andrew Plenty (Armed Forces & Services Club), Barry Dewing (Pompey Independent Supporters’ Association), David Callahan (South West Supporters’ Club), Donald Vass (TGFC Secretary & Chichester Portsmouth Supporters’ Club), George Paul (Northern Blues), Graham Price (Pompey 808), Ian Marshall (Chimes Lounge), Kev Ryan (Central Branch Supporters’ Club), Laurence Knight (Pompey Independent Supporters’ Association), Leon Tricker (Social Media Groups), Mike Fulcher (TGFC Chair & Social Media Groups), Nick Paul (Northern Blues), Pam Wilkins (Pompey Disabled Supporters’ Association), Roy Gregory (Central Branch Supporters’ Club), Steve Heaven-Gandy (Isle Of Wight Supporters’ Club), Steve Tovey (Legends Lounge), & Tracy Jane (Portsmouth Women Supporters’ Club).

 

Apologies:

Gemma Raggett (London Supporters’ Club), Richard Brook (Clan Pompey) & Simon Colebrook (Portsmouth Supporters’ Trust).

 

1. Football

 

Q: There’s a growing consensus that our summer recruitment has been the major problem this season, and we look weaker as a team than we did at the end of last season. How have we ended up here? Can we realistically attract players of the required quality while sitting in the bottom three, and will the owners actually fund it come January?

RH: I understand why this has been raised. The key thing to discuss is how we’ve ended up here. We set out a plan with our summer recruitment to sign players we believed would benefit the group. We had a lens towards signings who would fit the player trading model, and a lens towards the here and now. We signed some young players who have had success, and some others who haven’t yet. But we also added nearly 500 games at Championship level with the signings of Conor Chaplin and John Swift.

We find ourselves in December with some deals having not quite worked out as intended yet. This is not where we want to be in the table. Can we attract good quality signings in January? I think we can. We’re in roughly the same spot we were 12 months ago in terms of points on the board, and we were able to recruit last January to positively affect the group.

That’s the aim again next month. It may be that some of our business is done towards the back end of January, which comes with its frustrations, but there is money in the budget available for January. We want to be as active and proactive as possible.

 

Q: Were there any players you tried to sign in the summer but couldn’t because of our budget?

RH: There were players we tried to sign who chose to take different options. That’s not always a financial decision; it’s often just different circumstances. In the Championship, there will often be a group of clubs wanting the same player.

 

Q: There’s a feeling among some supporters that the model of signing young, developing players isn’t working. Will we increase the playing budget in January to aim for more established talent, or will we continue to look for younger players who we might be able to later sell for a profit?

RH: There’s a scenario where both statements can be true. Last January, we bought a mixture of players for the here and now and also some we thought could develop and grow with the club. We have to move towards making decisions which allow us to be sustainable. That will dictate some decisions we make, but we need to keep both strategies moving forward. Of course, we want to prioritise the here and now and get players who can make an immediate impact in the last few months of the season.

 

Q: Has the success rate of our transfers been high enough?

RH: I’m not just talking through self-preservation, but recruitment is tough. Liverpool spent a reported cost of over £400m on players this summer – and some of that hasn’t worked as they would have hoped at the moment. The success of some signings isn’t always as obvious – the year we got promoted; we signed Ben Stevenson on a free. Some people said it was pointless. But Ben was great around the group and great in training, and that will have had an impact on the rest of the squad.

When transfers don’t work out, you can be sure the first people to dissect it will be me, John Mousinho, Brad Wall, and the rest of the recruitment team – what did we miss? Did we get anything wrong? We want to keep working hard, and to keep being diligent. We have some great people working with us on recruitment.

 

Q: We’ve got 4 points from the last 9 games. Is the Head Coach’s position under threat?

RH: No.

AC: We are committed to a long-term plan and will not overreact to short term challenges. I do not believe it is helpful to publicly answer a question speculating on any member of staff’s position. We are trying to do things differently as a football club, avoid short-term knee-jerk reactions and to be stable and sustainable. We see the work that goes on day in, day out. I have been privileged to be in the game for 28 years and hope I have both the trust of those around me to identify when things are bad, and when there is a need for patience and support.

 

Q: What do you believe are the features of an established Championship club? Do you believe Pompey currently has all those features? If not, what is the plan and timescale for achieving them?

RH: By definition, one of the things that has to happen for us to be an established Championship club is for us to maintain our league status for a period of time. That’s the primary aim of what we have to achieve. Behind the scenes, we’ve made improvements to the training ground, recruitment and sports science. But we’re aware that without survival, they become irrelevant.

We have to stay in the Championship, but we also have to keep improving behind the scenes. They go hand in hand. Obviously, people want the immediacy of success on the pitch, but we have to have an eye on both. There are enough examples in football of people who go up, don’t improve their structures, and come straight back down.

AC: I am still not sure what sustainable means – sustainability means different things to different people. Championship owners and CEOs spoke on this matter in our EFL Championship meeting this week. Having a really good player trading model helps – look at Coventry. For their first three years back in the Championship after winning promotion in 2020, they made seed corn investments, then sold Viktor Gyökeresand Gustavo Hamer in 2023 for a reported combined £35m -a significant sum of money they could then use to reinvest. Instead of making the £1m-£2m signings that they had previously been doing, they then used the proceeds to sign £3m-£4m players. They have made some significant sales again this year but are also able to hold onto most of the players as well. They have tended to buy around age 23 and sell at around age 26.

The harsh reality though is that Championship clubs are all reliant on significant investment from their owners to survive. Many owners in the Championship and League One are becoming increasingly concerned about the required funding just to stand still – many spending £10m-£25m in cash each year just to go nowhere. This is indicative of a systemic problem in football, especially in the Championship.

Increasingly, clubs are being bought by private equity, who look for a return over 7-8 years. Where does that leave clubs and their communities when it does not work out?  The Independent Football Regulator’s forthcoming State of the Game report will hopefully identify these very issues. We expect that to naturally lead to a review of the financial distribution models; youth development and the cliff edges in football, such as the one that exists between the Premier League and The Championship.

Let’s remember that the Independent Football Regulator was actually born from the Fan Led Review with fans rightly concerned that reckless spending on short term aims was putting their clubs at long term risk, and demanding measures to be put in place to protect their football clubs from overspending and overtrading, with enforceable checks from a regulator to prevent this.

 

Q: How close is the player trading model to delivering players we can sell for a few million pounds?

RH: We are getting closer. We’ve not reached a highly established level yet, but we sold three players in the summer for combined profit over what we bought them for. We also turned down a seven-figure sum this summer, significantly in excess of what we paid for the player. What’s paramount to the process is to bring in players at the right value who will grow. We looked at our recent signings – of the players we’ve spent over £100,000 on, the average age is 22.

Since I’ve been at the football club, we’ve been trying to stimulate the model. We need patience with the academy, but there are signs that the players we’ve got coming through will be able to be part of the future of the football club. Toby Steward is having a great loan, Tayo Singerr is scoring a lot of goals at non-league level and Ashton Sizer has been on the bench for us a few times. Greg Miller has been at the club over 4 years now, and we’re starting to see the fruits of his work.

AC: Youth development translating to professional contracts is not an issue confined to Portsmouth Football Club. The problem is widespread within the academy system. There has been a 200% increase directly from the club in our academy investment over the last two years, partly driven by the increase in minimum wage, national insurance thresholds, facility hires and other costs.

The issue most academies are facing, whether they are Category 3, 2 or 1 is that so many U16 players are being raided by the big six clubs. The bigger clubs cannot go overseas now in the way that they used to recruit, so they invariably hoover up young talent early from across the Academy system.

I am a member of professional football’s Youth Development Working Group. One member is from a Premier League Category 1 academy that has recently produced several players for the England national team. But now, he fears every time his young players go to an England U15/U16 camp -he feels it probably means his club will inevitably lose them as the big Premier League clubs ransack academies.

It raises big questions for so many clubs over the purpose of investing in a talented boy from 8 years old when there’s so little protection at 14. We do seek to offer early scholarships for talented boys– that provides some protection for both the club and the parents. That meant with CJ Afumuzor and Xander Grieves [two U16 Pompey Academy players who moved to Premier League clubs last year], we were able to at least have a conversation and negotiate the deal that Newcastle and Wolves paid. We may also benefit further down the line if they go on to succeed.

I am really concerned about where youth development currently sits in this country, but I am however excited about our own youth talent. I speak in my programme notes today about Tayo Singerr, whose progress has been recognised by an EFL award last week. Ashton Sizer has been part of the first team and we have others enjoying successful loans in men’s non league football – we have got talent coming through.

RH: When the Elite Player Performance Plan was brought in, it was set up for 12 Category 1 academies. There are 26 now, so the market is bigger. That provides a lot of challenges. The most challenging thing in football is playing young players. Clubs that do, it’s often because of financial difficulties. Putting young players into the first team can stimulate sales – but your team will probably lose more often.

 

Q: PFC are trying to operate as a sustainable football club, but we know the Championship is a horrendous place in terms of loss-making. A number of clubs in League One are pushing for a salary cap – what is PFC’s stance on this, and is it known if backing for a Salary Cap is a widespread view amongst EFL Clubs?

AC: I will address the context of League One first. Many clubs there have been arguing for a salary cap. I remember at my last club in 2020, when several League One clubs were quite keen to bring a salary cap. It never happened, as it was felt it would be legally challenged by the PFA.  

SCMP [Salary Cost Management Protocol] at the time in League One allowed you to spend 60% of your revenue on player wages and related expenses, which you could top up with equity but not debt.

In 2020, average losses in League One were £2.6m a year, now that figure has now risen to over £6m. Wages have increased in that division significantly, with several clubs last year spending particularly big. Some League One clubs have been scarred by that and want to reduce the reliance on owner funding. We are told that a good number of clubs in League One still want a salary cap. This season a tax on equity investment over £500k has for the first time been introduced in League One.  There is a discussion about going even further and introducing an absolute salary cap in League One with no equity permitted to use for player wages, but there is still much debate around that.

In the Championship, everyone knows the scale of losses. Average annual club losses in 2023-24 were £17m. Club owners are getting more and more fed up with this and the cash requirement to stand still where parachute payment clubs have a head start of £44m per year plus player trading profits from their players who want to remain in the Premier League.

There are four potential ways you can be more sustainable.

1. First, you can win promotion to the Premier League. Many clubs there lose money as well, but in the first couple of years, promoted clubs tend to make a big profit.

2. The second way would be if the funding formula for clubs in English football is changed and then there’s a review on how parachute payments are paid. That would mean more income for clubs outside of the Premier League to invest in infrastructure and youth development.

3. The third means would be through player trading profits. In 23/24, the average player trading profit among Championship clubs was around £17m. If you strip out clubs in receipt of parachute payments, that drops to £8m.

4. The final way to become more sustainable would be through the new Financial Fair Play rules coming in. We are seeing a new model, with Salary Cost Ratios introduced in the Premier Leaguenext season, and likely to be introduced in the Championship

Where are we going in terms of the Championship? Current Championship Financial Fair Play rules mean you can lose up to £39m over 3 years. We have plenty of headroom there – we are nowhere near breaching that figure. Many clubs though have now reached that limit. Financial Fair Play is likely to be replaced by a new SCR model [Squad Cost Ratio] already voted in by the Premier League, where squad costs will be limited to 85% of a club’s revenue.

The Independent Football Regulator is now enshrined in law, and the amount of information currently being requested by the IFR from the leagues and clubs including ourselves is substantial. This is all geared to the requirement of the IFR, by statute, to deliver their State of the Game Report within 18 months. That Report is going to hopefully highlight the issues distorting the game.

In the meantime, the IFR is pushing on with a club licensing system. To be licenced, clubs in the top five divisions will have to meet certain financial requirements. One stipulation is that a club will have to hold appropriate cash resources for a significant forward period to fund its future operations. The licence will require owners to show they have resilience and forward planning to operate their business plan and ambitions. Stress tests will need to be clearly demonstrated.  What would happen if you got relegated? What if the owner decides to leave? If you can’t show that you can meet these requirements, and don’t get your licence to operate, the regulator could step in and appoint someone to run your football club. It might be a watershed moment for football.

 

Q: What do you think about the rise in strategic timeouts during games?

RH: Everyone does it. We are all fans of the game so we share the frustration at times, but nearly everyone will do everything it takes to win.

 

2. Charlton FC (A) Abandonment

 

Q: Everyone associated with the TGFC will have been very sad to hear of the death of Norman Barker, and our thoughts are with his family, friends and fellow supporters. What has been put in place after Alec Lumb sadly died in January at Fratton Park? It feels like medical emergencies in the stand are happening too often at grounds generally. Is there any research into why this appears to be more common now?

AC: I would like to again express our condolences to Norman’s family and also my further thoughts with those who were around him in the stadium – the supporters, medics, and staff who witnessed everything first-hand and who were impacted. The game will be replayed, but sadly Norman will not be there to see it. We discussed the subject at the EFL Championship meeting on Thursday, and the overall consensus is that medical emergencies are not happening more often, instead we are hearing more about them. Prior to Alec Lumb, the last time someone lost their life at Fratton Park was in 2017. There was very little online about that sad moment in 2017, but now there is far more coverage of incidents that occur today. News is faster and now more readily available, supporters are alerting players in ways that did not happen before, and officials are briefed to be informed and stop the game if necessary.

lWe have good provision for any such event around the ground. We do pre-match briefings with officials before games, and part of that is what happens if there is a medical emergency in the ground, so that the fourth official knows what to expect. We had a defibrillator with Alec within 2 minutes, and he was given immediate CPR by two nurses sat behind him. The EFL’s ‘Every Minute Matters’ campaign team have been present at some matches in the Fanzone, demonstrating CPR. We recently introduced Lauren’s Legacy at the ground. That campaign was set up by well-known fan ‘Tango’ at Sheffield Wednesday with the aim of ensuring there are extra defibrillators accessible at sports venues around the country.  We are grateful to Tango, who is known by John Westwood, and John made sure Portsmouth were one of the first grounds to receive them. We now have 9 defibrillators on site on non-matchdays, rising to 18 on a matchday. We have 2 fully-equipped ambulances on site, plus one from St John’s as well – two statutory plus one extra.

Q: Why was the game abandoned following the medical emergency?

AC: The decision would have been taken by the home club’s Safety Officer who would have been in possession of all the relevant information. The Safety Officer will submit a report on what happened on the day and why the decision was reached. I appreciate the frustration from fans – we ourselves got differing opinions when we continued playing the Middlesbrough fixture after Alec Lumb’s death. Some felt the game should have carried on, some felt it should not have.  

 

Q: Should Stadium Safety Officers have set protocols in place for what to do when this happens?

AC: The EFL will want the game to continue wherever possible. For the abandoned Millwall fixture in November 2024, we had other factors at play to consider, including train times home as it was an evening fixture. Ultimately, it’s a decision for the Safety Officer, who is duty bound to be in possession of the facts and to determine whether the game is safe to carry on.

 

Q: If televised 12:30pm Saturday kick-offs like this do have long stoppages, what happens if the match extends beyond the 2:45pm ‘blackout’? Would the broadcaster need to stop showing the game before the final whistle? Was this a factor in the decision to abandon the game?

AC: I did check this with the EFL. I understand the game could have continued broadcasting as it was scheduled to finish outside of the blackout, even though the delay would have brought it within it. This is unprecedented though and has not been tested yet.

 

3. Stadium, Travel & Local Infrastructure

 

Q: With the Fratton Footbridge Feasibility Study drawing to a conclusion, what are the next steps if it is proved to be feasible? Has the club got plans for ground expansion drawn up and ready to go in anticipation of positive news?

AC: We hoped the study would be completed by the end of the year, but those compiling the report will now apply the final touches in the new year. The interim discussions show a potential bridge could be built but costs are currently significantly higher than what was originally envisaged. The stakeholders, including ourselves, have asked that these costs to be reviewed.

Outside of that, Stephen Morgan MP recently organised for all stakeholders to meet with Lawrence Bowman, the Managing Director of the newly-nationalised South Western Railway. We jointly presented why this infrastructure is essential to regenerate Fratton. We discussed ideas where potential funding could come from and the potential timelines. The bridge is conditional for everything we want to do – the Portsmouth Local Plan states we need a safe access route from Fratton Station to expand the stadium, and for the enabling development which would help fund it. We remain grateful for the support of our local MPs on this matter.

We do 100% want to extend capacity, Step one was to bring Fratton Park’s capacity back up to 21,000. We have done that. Our long-term goal is now to increase the capacity further to maximise the potential of the football club.

The North Stand is a long-term project. If and when we get the green light to start the planning consent process it would take several months to get a Planning Performance Agreement put together.

I remain mindful of the costs of stand redevelopments un the UK. Nottingham Forest released plans this week for a £350m investment cost to redevelop two stands. Liverpool spent over £120m on one stand. An enabling development could generate income of just under half the stand construction cost – so we have to plan for the remaining funding.

 

Q: If the bridge can’t be built, what is Plan B for ground expansion?

AC: We are looking at different options for how we could improve capacity. As well as exploring filling in the corners of the ground, we have looked at possible areas where we could fit in more rows, and more seats here and there. Anything we do though must work in conjunction with our wider masterplan.

 

Q: The sound system in the North Stand, between the halfway line and the Milton End, always cuts out during warm-up activities. Please can this be fixed?

AC: We have two sound systems – the safety system and the PA system. The safety system is good, but I agree that the PA system in the North Stand is not where it should be. The problem we have is that a huge amount of capital projects need doing. In 2025, we have already had to spend £2m on required stadium infrastructure to maintain our licence. There is another £1m of essential work to be done in 2026 – sprinklers, fire alarms etc. All these works are needed year on year in an old stadium. In the next few years, the stadium floodlights will need upgrading, and a new pitch and drainage with undersoil heating is likely to cost nearly £2m. It is about prioritising what is essential and getting the balance right. That is why Michael Eisner said in his recent video for the PST’s AGM that he wants to prioritise cash resources on the pitch.

Follow up question from the TGFC regarding the success of the Victory Suite redevelopment and growth in non-match day conferencing and events.

MJ: Prior to doing the Victory Lounge refurbishment, we had 30 covers booked for Christmas parties at Fratton Park. This year, 1,300 people are booked in. Today, post-game, we’ll turn the lounge around for 200 people for a Christmas party later tonight. We’ve worked really hard. It all helps the club’s overall revenue model. All of us are trying to create conditions for success on the pitch. Now, we’re a venue of choice in the market, and not just for passionate football fans. The lounges are now being used midweek as well, and we’ve had companies coming in to use our facilities for board meetings.  

 

4. Ticketing

 

Q: How much can fans expect to pay to watch Arsenal at Fratton Park for the FA Cup 3rd Round?

MJ: The prices have now been announced. It can be hard to find a balance for games like this – we could charge more, but what’s fair and reasonable? The prices we’ve settled on mean that season ticket holders get access to our normal league price, while other ticket holders will pay slightly more. We soundboard with supporters regularly on topics like this to understand where things should sit. For this fixture, we spoke with some members of the PST and TGFC prior to setting prices.

 

Q: A number of supporter groups are willing to help others if they don’t take up their full allocations of away tickets. Would ticket office staff be willing to meet with the relevant supporter group representatives to discuss this?

MJ: This question has come up twice in the last 12 months – the club’s position hasn’t changed. This is not for this group to decide. It has to be a wider discussion, including non-supporter group fans. We can look to pick it up at the end of the season. However, it should also be noted that the sharing of allocations is challenging for the ticket office.

 

5. Other

 

Q: The freely-available and engaging monthly updates on YouTube from Andy Cullen or Tornante have disappeared. Can this be reviewed please?

AC: I can review and I have always been happy to do them. I am fully committed to doing whatever I can to deliver and maintain our club’s reputation for best in class for fan engagement, the club having won this very award at the FSA Awards last December. This week, I have the Tony Goodall Fans’ Conference today; I am joining the Isle of Wight Supporters club for a Q&A session on Monday, and I am attending the Heritage and Advisory Board on Tuesday. I attended the PST AGM with Rich and John last month, and John attended the Chichester Supporters’ Club meeting last week. The reason the YouTube Q and A’s have been less frequent is I felt we had reached a stage where I was answering the same questions from mainly the same people every month and I questioned the continued value of doing that. I do not want to just tick a box but instead have meaningful engagement, through a variety of different communication channels.  

My preference is to attend the various live supporter Q and A forums and be available for fans to speak to every matchday in my walk around the stadium. I hope my programme notes are also helpful. Not many programmes now contain notes from the CEO. I ensure these notes are put on our website for everyone to access and not exclusive to programme purchasers. I am happy to take guidance on this matter from supporters and reconvene YouTube Q&As, if several fans think that this would be additionally helpful on top of the all the other fan engagement initiatives we carry out.  

 

Q: Are we close to appointing a Chief Operating Officer to replace Tony Brown?

AC: The process is ongoing. We are close to making an appointment,

 

Q: From next season there will be fewer international breaks, with the September and October breaks combined. This could mean a three-week break between domestic fixtures. What plans does the EFL have for this period? Do the plans differ by division?

AC: Next year, the two separate international breaks in September and October will be merged into one, lasting three weeks. The last Premier League and Championship league games will be on the 20th September, and then football there will resume on the 10th of October. In League One and League Two, the length of the break will depend on how many internationals are called up, From my own perspective, the fact we have four Australian internationals travelling across continents, means it’s better to merge the breaks so they’re travelling less and not having to cope with jet lag three times in three months.  

 

Q: I would like to ask the club if it’s possible for a minute’s applause in memory of Dave Morton who died last month. I know that there was a mention for him in the programme for the last game but he was a great servant of our club for many years and I know his wife Michelle and his children would really appreciate it.

JM: I know it has appeared in the programme. We’ve had four requests for a minute’s applause for this game alone. We encourage fans to wait for the end of the season, where we have the memorial game, honouring all fans who have died during the course of the season.

 

6. AOB

 

Q: Last week, a large number of Bristol City fans arriving by train were then escorted by police through our fanzone. Why?

AC: We have never had a policy against away fans in the fanzone. For most games – barring certain teams – the fanzone is open to all supporters, home and away. I appreciate though the optics of a large group coming through with a police escort will be of concern- we will liaise with police about this.

 

Q: What did you think of Michael Eisner saying we won’t be relegated this year, and saying we have Premier League aspirations [in his recent video for the PST AGM]?

AC: I do not have a problem with what the Chairman says – he sets out his expectations. In turn our club vision which is to aspire to be a sustainable and inclusive football club playing on a regular basis at the highest possible level.

Q: What do you think of recent media reports suggesting that the government is considering charging music and sports venues for event policing outside of their footprint?

AC: We currently pay for policing inside our footprint, but not for policing at train stations and around the city. The proposal is that event organisers may have to pay for all of this in the future. That would have serious consequences for the ability of most event operators if that became the case. We are aware of discussions taking place and will be represented by the EFL at meetings with the government.  

 

An update from the Pompey History Society: We have reached our £25,000 fundraising target for Peter Harris’s First Division title medals. They will be in the boardroom today, and form part of a new Peter Harris exhibition in the City Hall in March. Thank you to everyone who contributed to the fundraiser.

 

Minutes – Donald Vass